DISCUSSIONS ON JAINISM AND BRAHMINISM

 

In our monthly web poll for the month of March 2004 we had asked the question about the relation between Jainism and Brahminism. The question was:

 

Jainism is a:

 Below are given the replies, explanation and interpretations to this question given by some of our visitors and Jain friends.

 

EXPLAINATION BY VINOD KAPASHI

 

The debate of Jainism/ Brahminism is indeed an interesting one. I would like to present some observations as follows. 

The theory of 'Aryan invasion' is widely disputed now by many scholars in India.. I have seen many arguments which makes one think about the whole notion of Aryan invasion. But this is neither here nor there as far as two ideologies are concerned.

It is true that Shraman tradition was based on the principle of Ahimsa and they practiced austerities but the word Shraman has not been derived from SHRAM (hard work). Shram is a sanskrit language word and if we accept that the language was brought by the Aryans and the Shraman philosophy existed before Aryan's arrival then there is no reason to belive that the word Sharaman has been derived from Shram. But the stronger argument is some what different. Shramans did not belive in Arambh-samarabh (Acharanga Sootra). When ALL activities were 'forbidden' there was no need for Shram (hard labour).  The fact as I have read is that the word is Shaman (not Shraman). Sham means calming down and peace/equanimity (not Shram = hard labour). Please see Prakrit/ Ardha-magadhi dictionaries.

In the past 100 or so years  many a times we have been guided by some scholars whose knowledge of Sanskrit , Prakrit is very limited. When they interpret certain words in certain ways people tend to belive them.

There is also an interesting point:-  Many verses in Uttaradhyayan Sootra (Jain) and Dhamma-pada (Buddhist) text are same as Shanti Parva of Mahabharata (great Hindu epic). This can lead to another argument as to who was influenced by whom. If Mahabharata was written long before Jain and Buddhist texts , (as all most all historians believe), does it mean We have copied from Hindu text Mahabharata??

The arguments can never be settled... BUT then that does not lead us to Moksha..Does it?

Respectfully,

 

Vinod Kapashi (vkapashi@ntlworld.com )

(In his reply to the group JainNet@yahoogroups.com on 9-4-2004)

 

 

EXPLAINATION BY PIYUSH JAIN

Thanks Mr. Shah for provide such a good list of comments from the people of different geographies. And you are, we should not have any doubt about existence of Jain religion. Jain dharm is logical & practical as compared to Hindu or any other religion. So there should not be a question whether it is a reform or revolt from Hinduism.

 

Piyush Jain (piyushjain@hotmail.com)

(In his reply to the group JainNet@yahoogroups.com on 6-4-2004)

 

REFERENCES GIVEN BY SANJEEV NAYYAR

Have uploaded excerpts from the last chapter of the book Jaina Darsana in Gujarati by learned by Munisri Nyayavijayayji translated into English as Jaina Philosophy and Dharma by Nagin Shah, a Sanskrit scholar. The piece has eight paras covering Jaina views on God being the creator of the word, the doctrine of momenatriness, Vedanta monism, idol-worship, non-attachment must be the goal of every man, Different teachings yet common thread - a brief comparison of Jaina and 6 systems of Indian philosophy, Jaina Dharma is a way of living etc. The link is http://www.esamskriti.com/html/new_inside.asp?cat_name=health&cid=812&sid=10002

Extracts from the piece are -

Acarya Haribhadra’s thought related to the verse referred to above is worth studying.

When we acquaint ourselves with the essence of Jaina dharma, we find that is not a factional religious sect, but that it is a way of living. Of course, tirthankara Mahavira has established the fourfold Order (of monks, nun, layman, laywomen) and has formulated a code of conduct. In order to lay down a practical path for the good of the people and guide them properly, he gave them a constitution of the Order as also the code of conduct. Even a person who has not entered the Order but observes the code of conduct is called a Jaina. He too can attain Ultimate Release, if he follows the path of truth and non-violence.

Idol Worship - The verse in point throws light on the question by which name one should worship the ideal. One can worship an idol by muttering any name. Said Upadhyaya Yashovijayaji in his Paramatma Paccisi: Though Buddha, Jina, Hrsikesa, Sambhu, Brahma, Adipurusa etc are different names; the meaning for which they stand is identical. All these different names denote the same Supreme Soul.

A verse from the author’s book Anekantavibhuti-Dvatrimsika meaning: O Lord! You are Jina because you have conquered the passions like attachment, aversion, you are Buddha because you have attained the supreme knowledge, you are Visnu because you are all pervasive by your all-comprehensive omniscience, and you are Siva because are the embodiment of perfect of spiritual good.

Another verse by Jayasekharasuri in Sambohasattari: If a person is equanimous he attains liberation without fail no matter whether he is Svetambara or a Digambara or a Bauddha or a follower of any other religious sect.

 

Sanjeev Nayyar (exploreindia@vsnl.net)

(In his reply to the group jainlist@yahoogroups.com on 3-4-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY JYOTI KOTHARI

 

Thanx for the mail. It is a good discussion. U have rightly described the things but one to the best of my knowledge.
marichi did not revolt against adinatha, his grandfather. But because of his seekness Marichi needed a disciple to take care as no monk of adinatha was serving him.He preached prince kapila to go to Adinatha but he came back from there & asked mariachi to preach him. Marichi thought him apropriate to be his disciple and he preached him for that.
Source: The Kalpasutra commentry

 

Jyoti Kothari
(In the reply to the group jainlist@yahoogroups.com on 2-4-2004)


EXPLAINATION BY SREEPALAN

Interesting indeed the discussion on `Jainism and Brahminism'.

   Three cheers to the efforts of Shri.Naresh Shah for his Himalayan effort to place on board the discussion table various views on the unfathomable age of Jain Dharma and its originality, its superior quality expressed by both learned scholars of the west and illustrious sons of India of the bygone century.

   His rendition could be the final stamp on the issue as there is no angle or perception left out as could be seen from what all hves been said of Jain Dharma.

   So doubtless it should be and no question of Jain Dharma being a revolting or a reformist eligion against Brahminism as it is not a religion at all in the narrow sense but it is universal Dharma never failing and ever existing, come what may to the universe.

"Vipareedha vridhow maadhyastha bhaav" - Samaadhi Sathak(if I am right)

   Contain in silence when unnatural thoughts / views crop up (as soul's very essential quality is independance and is free to roam around.)

   Only Marichi the grandson of Baghavaan Adinath who revolted and preached against HIM became the 24th Thirthankar - Baghavaan Mahavir.Baghavaan Adinatha when reported to HIM about Marichi's  behaviour, HE advised the reporters to pay obeisance to Marichi's soul too as it is to be the 24th Thirthankar.But it had consumed thousands and thousands of years untold sufferinsgs for him to learn and realise the truth and was the very cause for postponing the attainment of Keval Gynaan.

 

Sreepalan (sreepal5058@yahoo.com)

(In his reply to the group jainlist@yahoogroups.com on 2-4-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY VASTUPAL PARIKH

   The basic purpose of ALL religious philosophies is to achieve happiness in present as well as afterlife.  Ancient India had two religious philosophies.  (1) One which was based on purification of soul to achieve permanent happiness and (2) other based on pleasing super-powers to win happiness.  The first system required self-discipline cultivated throughausterities and penances and hard work (SHRAMA) and therefore became known as "SHRAMAN" religion.  This was the ORIGINAL system in India as proven by Harrappan excavations (about 6500 years old civilization).  The other system was developed by Aryans who arrived in India in 1500 BCE (about 3500 years ago)  They developed vedas to please their Gods and thus to acquire happiness.  This system became known as Vedic or Brhamanic Religion. (Note -niether Hinduism nor Jainism existed) 

 The spread of the Vedic philosophy along the Indus river pushed Shraman aboriginals of India (Dravidians?)

 

Vastupal Parikh(vastup@hotmail.com)

(In His reply to the group JainNet@yahoogroups.com on 01-04-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY YASHWANT MALAYIA

First we should note that:

1. Jainism is the dharma as established by the Tirthankaras and kevalis.

2. Brahmanism, also often referred to as Hinduism, represents a combination of the Vedic and later Puranic traditions, as generally led by Brahmin scholars. It should be noted that both

terms "Brahmanism" and "Hinduism" are relatively new terms. Brahmanism actually includes several different philosophical and sectarian traditions.

The Tirthankars preach the dharma becuse it is the nature of Tirthankars ro establish a Tirtha. They do not do it as a revolt or reform.

Jainism represents the Shramana tradition with emphasis on vratas. Brahmanism practiced today is largely puranic, (involving worship of Ram, Krishna, Shiva etc), the Vedic rites and gods (like Indra, Agni etc)today are of minor significance.

Modern Hinduism has been significantly influenced by the Shraman traditions. Vegetarianism is because of the Jain influence. The karma- siddhanta, the tradition of celibate ascetics  too is a Shraman contribution. Some Hindu sects such as Saiva Siddhanta and Swaminarayan sampradaya have been specially influenced by Jainism.

Some elements of both the traditions are common, for example recognition of shalaka-purushas like Ram and Krishnas, goddeses Lakshmi and Sarasvati etc. The practive of making statues (pratimas)

was first practived in the Shramans tradition, in the Vedic tradition the gods were/are invoked without the use of statues.

The brahmin community, historically has been divided into many groups with distinctive philosophies. Some are largely vedic, some mostly vaishnava, some shaivite etc. Some of them have followed Buddhism or Jainism in the past. Even now we can find some Jain and Buddhist

Brahmins.

 

Yashwant (ymalayia@yahoo.com)

(In His reply to the group jainfriends@yahoogroups.com on 01-04-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY NARESH SHAH

Dear Friends:

Jai Jinendra.

As stated below (taken from A Handbook of Jainology), Jainism is one of the oldest religions. It represents SRAMAN tradition while Brahminism represents VEDIC tradition.

The Jain Dharma existed even before the emergence of the Vedas and the Puranas which are said to be ancient. This point is proved by what is said in the following stanza.

 Lord Rishabhdev Jineshwar the omniscient and the all pervasive incarnated himself on the magnificent Kailas (Ashtapad Mountain).

 Nabhiraja and Marudevi gave birth to a son named Rishabhdev, the greatest of Kshatriyas and the first ancestor of all Kshatriyas.  Mahadev Rishabhdev was born to Nabhiraja and Marudevi, in the Ikshvaku dynasty; assumed the ten kinds of Dharma; and after attaining Kevaljnan (the supreme knowledge) disseminated it.

 Lord Neminath abides on Raivatadri (Girnar) and Lord Adinath abides on Vimalachal (Shatrunjay Siddhagiri). These mountains enable people to pursue the path of Moksha since the ashrams of great Rishis (sages) were located there.

 Man will not have punarvajanma (he will be free from the cycle of birth and death ) if he touches Shatrunjay Tirth; if he bows to Girnar; and if he bathes in Gajapandkund. All meditate upon Maharishi(sage) Rishabhdev , who has an ideal form ; who inspires enthusiasm in men; who is a pure soul having attained kevaljnyan(supreme knowledge); who is spotless and formless.

 The fruit that can be attained by visiting the sixty eight holy places, can be attained by meditating on Lord Adinath. (Lord Adinath is the other name of Rishabhdev)

 The word Arhan begins with  (a) and ends with  (ha). Above and below it has has the crescent moon shaped curves with Nadbindhus(dots or drops of sound). Oh Goddess! This word signifies the supreme truth. Those who realise this truth cut off the bondage of the sansar and attain moksha (salvation).

 Rishabh was born to Marudevi. Bharat was born to Rishabh. Bharat (India arose from Bharat and Sumati arose from Bharat

 Just as the sun possesses rays; the Arihant possesses the wealth of true knowledge.

 The Arihant is the foremost in carrying out the noble action of rendering benevolence to others and he is absolutely heroic. In the same manner, make sacrificial offerings to the worthy Gods.

 Marudevi was the sixth founder of lineage and Nabhi  was the seventh. Rishabh who possessed wide feet was born to Marudevi and Nabhi, the eighth fouder of lineage. He was a guide to heroic men. He was venerated by Gods and demons. He expounded and taught the three great ethics. He became the Jin in the biginning of the yuga (millenium).

 

THE OPINIONS OF WESTERN SCHOLARS ABOUT THE JAIN DHARMA

 "I tell my countrymen that the principles of the Jain Dharma and the Jain Acharyas are sublime; and that the ideas the Jain dharma are lofty. The Jain literature is  superior to the Buddhistic literature.  As I continue to  study the Jain Dharma and its literature, my fascination for  them keeps increasing". -Dr. Johannes Hurtell(Germany)

 

The Jain Dharma is an entirely independent religion in all respects. It has not borrowed ideas from other religions; nor  is it an imitation of other religions. -Dr. Herman Jacobi

 

 The history of the Jain Dharma and its teachings are greatly beneficial to human beings in their endeavour to attain  spiritual development and progress. This Dharma is true,  independent, simple, straightforward, very valuable and  entirelydifferent from Brahminism or the Vedic religion. It  is not an atheistic religion like Buddhism. -Dr. A. Girnot (Paris)

 

The Jain Dharma is absolutely different and independent from the Hindu Dharma. -Max Mueller

 

It is probably impossible to find out when the Jain Dharma  arose and when it was established; and since when it has been in existence. It is the most ancient of the religions of  Hindustan. -G. J. R. Furlough

 

In the ancient history of India, the name of the Jain Dharma  is evergreen and immortal. -Col. Toad

 

 Undoubtedly, the Jain Dharma has reached the highest point of  perfection in respect of its religious philosophy. -Dr. Purdolt

 

The Jain Dharma belongs to the highest rank of religions.  The main principles of the Jain Dharma are based on  scientific thinking. As science keeps progressing it keeps  proving the soundness of the Jain philosophical principles.  -Dr. L. P Tessifori (Italy)

 

I like the doctrines of Jainism greatly. If I were to be reborn, I wish to be born as a Jain. -George Bernard Shaw

 

Jainism is unique in preaching kindness to alI animals; and  in preaching the need to give protection to all animals. I  have not come across such a principle of benevolence in any  other religion. -Ordi Corjeri (An American Scholar)

 

'I like the doctrines of Jainism greatly. If I were to be  reborn, I wish to be born as a Jain'. -George Bernard Shaw

 

Compared to Buddhism, the Jain Dharma is more ancient.  Twenty three Tirthankars~ existed before the emergence of  Buddhism. -The Imperial Gazette of India

 

THE OPINIONS OF THE INDIAN SCHOLARS ABOUT THE JAIN DHARMA

 

 Meat eating and wine drinking in Brahminism were discarded on  account of the influence of Jainism. -Lokmanya Tilak

 

Lord Mahavir was the greatest advocate of non-violence. -Mahatma Gandhi

 

Jainism and Buddhism are absolutely Indian but they are not  offshoots of Hinduism. -Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru

 

If those who are hostile to Jainism make a careful and  incisive study of the Jain literature and assimilate it.  their hostility will surely cease. -Dr. Ganganath Jha

 

The true and sublime message of Mahavir inspires in us the  lofty emotion of universal amity as if through the cry of a  'conch shell.' - Sir Akbar Hydari

 

Shri Rishabhdev first disseminated the Jain Dharma. -Shri Varadikant M. A.

 

The Syadvad is an impregnable fort of the Jain Dharma.  The  bullets of the arguments and the counter arguments of the  controversialists cannot penetrate this fort. -Pandit Ram Misra Acharya

 

 "Though the Jain Dharma had to face hateful opposition and  countless impediments it has always and at all places! been  victorious. Arhan is none other than Lord Parameshwar". A  description of Lord Arhan is discernible even in the Vedas.  -Swami Virupaksha (Professor,Sanskrit College, Indore)

 

The Jain Dharma is so ancient that its origin and early  history cannot be easily discovered. -Kannulal Jodhpuri

 

 "I once saw two books in the hands of a Jain disciple. When I  read them I found that they were true and impartial; and that  I had entered ~ new realm of thought. I found that what I had  studied from my boyhood and the Vedic flag which I kept  flaunting were unreal and untrue. If there is a religion  which is ancient, true and supremel?J sound, it is the Jain  Dharma. -Yori Jivanand Paramhamsa

 

 Only the Tirthankars, the founders and promoters of the Jain  Dharma have conferred upon us the extraordinary gift of  absolute non-violence. -Dr. Radhavinod Pal

 

 The modern research in history has proved that the Jain  Dharma existed even before Brahminism or the Hindu Dharma. -Justice Rangnekar

 

 The fact that the Jain Dharma is an ancient religion has been  proved by countless rock-edicts, caves, fossils and the  excavations at Mohenjodaro. The Jain Dharma has been in vogue  from the time of creation. It is more ancient than the  Vedanta Dharma. -Swami Misra Jhah     

 

 "The Syadvad provides us with a point of view of comprehensive and unified visualization. It is not related to the  fundamental secret of an object. According to it, we cannot  attain a complete knowledge of an object unless we view it  from various points of view. The syadvad is not a conjectural  approach to reality. It teaches us how we should look at the  universe. -Prof. Anandshankar Dhruva

 

 The Jain Literature is greatly useful to the world in the  sphere of historical research and studies. It provides  abundant material to historian~, arche.ologists and scholars  to carry out their research.  The Jain Sadhus have set a  magnificent example to the world of self-discipline by  disciplining their senses absolutely and by observing vows  and principles with the greatest degree of austerity. Even  the life of a householder who has dedicated himself to the  Principles of Jainism is so faultless and perfect that it  should be honoured throughout India. -Dr. Satish Chandra Vidya Bhushan (Calcutta)

 

 Lord Mahavir communicated the message that Dharma is the only  truth, with his voice that resounded like the sounds of a  kettledrum. It is really significant that this message has  captivated the whole country. -Dr. Rabindranath Tagore

 

 We can attain absolute serenity by following the path shown  by Mahavir. In no other religion do you find the philosophy  of .non-violence developed to such an extent. On account of  its philosophy of non-violence, the Jain Dharma is worthy of  becoming the religion of the world. -Dr. Rajendra Prasad

 

 The Jain Dharma was in vogue even before the emergence of the  Vedant darshan. The Jain Dharma has been in practice even  from the beginning of creation. -Dr. Satishchandra

 

 Vardhaman Tirthankar made the traditions of the F'rinciples  and ideologies that had been expounded by the 23 earlier  sages or Tirthankars go forward. We have a lot of evidence to  establish the view that there were countless devotees and  followers of Rishabhdev even before the commencement of the  modern era. The Tirthankars are given prominence and honour  even in the Yajurveda. The Jain Dharma has been in existence  from times immemorial. -Dr. Radhakrishnan

 

 

The Jain literature is more ancient than the others and it is  useful for the daily spiritual austerities and practices. So,  I heartily desire to acquire a know1edge of Jain Dharma.  It  had an independent existence even before the emergence of  Hinduism. Its impact was experienced by the greatest men of  the past. -Ravbahadur Poornendra Narayana Sinha

 

 It has been clearly established that Jainism is not a branch  of Buddhism. In the Jain philosophy, there is a detailed  discussion of the principle of life or existence. No other  darshan has so many philosophical works. -Abjaksha Sarkar, M.A.,LLB.

 

 The greatest principle of Jainism is its principle of non-violence.  The greatness of this religion is that it permits  even women to become initiated into Charitradharma and to  lead a life of service and dedication. The Buddhists do not  fear committing violence so much as Jains

I very much like the subtler aspects of the Jain  philosophical doctrine. -Mohammad Hafiz Sayad, B.A.,LL.B.

 

 I am greatly interested in the Jain doctrines because they  contain a subtle and profound discussion of the Karma  Philosophy. -M. D. Pande

 

Regards,

Naresh Shah (naresh-indirashah@msn.com)

(In his reply to the groups jain-friends@yahoogroups.com, jainlist@yahoogroups.com, jainfriends@yahoogroups.com 01-04-2004) 

 

 

EXPLAINATION BY NSWIRIN

Hello there!

  It is my hope that -- in Jainism if nowhere else -- there can be room for reform without the violent "taste" of "revolt."  That -- for me -- is the ESSENCE of Jainism!!!

nswirin (no_reply@yahoogroups.com)

(In His reply to the group jainism2@yahoogroups.com on 31-03-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY DR.C.DEVAKUMAR

The question of relationship between Jainism and Brahminism smacks on the premise that Jainism is an offshoot of Vedic religion. As Jains, we know all Indic religions, if not world religions, owe its origin to Tirthankar Adi Bhagavan. Over a period of time, mythology, rituals, tantra and mantra all became too important to certain groups which led to this amalgamation called Vedic religion which was given a name by others as Hinduism. This ism slowly and surely was spread among common people. The true aspect of Jainism got sidelined and marginalised. The majority people took every heritage as their own and gave new meaning and shapes to their liking. Having not satisfied with this predation, they wanted to deny the independent identity of Jainism by such concocted history and hypothesis. The scission within Jainism, the craze to embrace Hindu gods such as Hanuman, Ram etc., calling one as a saint without renunciation of worldly order have eroded the true value of this religion whose essence is victory over illusion, ignorance and all attachments. It is unfortunate to witness certain “saints” indulging in health care aspects of common man or modeling themselves just like saints of other religions. How fallen we have become from the professed path of renunciation and pursuit of salvation. A true saint is one who is fearless, single-minded and has no mineness over his body. If the very body is not mine, who cares whether I clothe it or not. That is the ultimate renunciation.

Why care to bondage while this body is

An appendage for saints aiming to be birth-free (Tirukkural 345).

Enough is enough; let us not become a party to such kill-games the majority enjoys.

Micchami dukkadam

Dr. C. Devakumar (cdevakumar@yahoo.com)

(In His reply to the group jainheritagecentres@yahoogroups.com on 31-03-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY SHRISH

According to Jainism:

Jainism has no start and no end. The world goes through the cycles of 6 kaals. In 4th kaal of each cycle, 24 tirthankers (e.g mahavir) tell the truth to us, and then they attain moksha. We are currently in 5th kaal.

Hope it clarifies,

Shrish (shrish@u.washington.edu)

(In His reply to the group jain-friends@yahoogroups.com on 31-03-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY RAKESH

Hi,

Jainism was neither Revolt against Brahism nor Reform against Brahmism. Jain is very ancient religion, During time of Neminath Bhagwan the difference between the two started taking up and became more of conflicting and apparent at the time of Bhagwan Mahavir.

 

Both the Jain Shashtras and Hindu Shashtras have different point of views and different derivatives to define their stands. As per jainism Ram, Krishna, Laxman, Yudhishtir, Arjun, Bhim were all Jains. Ram, Laxman, Arjun, taken "Diksha" and become saints.

Whereas as per Hindu Shashtras, Mahavir, Parshwanath were Brahmans and they were worshipping Lord Shiva.

Truly we can't proove any things. all is matter of faith. My idea is not confuse you more but to draw your attention on two different stands.

Jai Jinendra

Rakesh (rado4@yahoo.com)

(In His reply to the group jain-friends@yahoogroups.com on 31-3-2004)

 

EXPLAINATION BY NAVINDRA JAIN

Dear Nitin,

I think you need to add one more option to the poll I.e., none of the above. Because, Jainism is neither a revolt nor a reform against Brahminism.  Jainism is an independent discovery of the nature of the universe and the laws that govern it. By discovering these laws it shows us a path by which a living being can reach its highest potential and live in a state of permanent happiness. These truths were discovered and promulgated  by our great Teerthankaras. As I recall, the Brahmin class was established by Bharat Chakravarti deeply impressed the highest of the acharan he observed amongst some of his subjects by granting them special privileges.  Over time the Brahmins evolved into a more rigid priesthood class that tried to rule over the rest by preserving special rights for itself and adopting the “mystery – mastery”

Navindra Jain (navindra@jain.org)

(In His reply to the group jainlist@yahoogroups.com on 31-3-2004)